"re: definition of folk music - my take on Don's usage of "folk
music" is that it's music that's being recycled. It's entered
public conciousness, it's on the table at the Great Smorgasbord,
and everyone has it to put on their plate... The essence of folk
isn't a specific form or that it's "tradition", it's that it
belongs to us all (in a sense that is deeper than what the law
says) and is there for us to re-use for our own purposes."
Hey! That's a really positive spin and surely true too, but I was just
thinking about how new formal invention/the invention of new forms is now
gone from all music, including any re-use genre of course. You are thinking
that if that history has stopped here, that's still a WHOLE LOT of stuff to
continue working with...
Quite Rightly!
DJ
Negativland
>oh god, this thread itself is so NOT NEW. we've even talked about
>it on this very list a lot already, with Don using basically the
>same sentences, and not that long ago.
>
>Jon and Don, you're both right. I think you're just arguing
>semantics. It's a matter of degree. Don's looking at the forest
>and Jon's looking at the trees.
>
>Having said that i just have a few orbital comments:
>
>re: definition of folk music - my take on Don's usage of "folk
>music" is that it's music that's being recycled. It's entered
>public conciousness, it's on the table at the Great Smorgasbord,
>and everyone has it to put on their plate... The essence of folk
>isn't a specific form or that it's "tradition", it's that it
>belongs to us all (in a sense that is deeper than what the law
>says) and is there for us to re-use for our own purposes.
>
>and further:
>
>on Mon, 14 Jan 2002 Jon Leidecker told me:
>
>->To me, this music _sounds_ fundamentally different. Maybe this is a simple
>
>what is your definition of "fundamental"? I bet there's almost
>as many personal meanings for that word as there are people on
>this list.
>
>->it coming). People are growing familiar with sampling not as a
>->revolutionary practice, but rather as another expression of
>->hyper-consumerism, mere nostalgic repetition. Put Oswald's 'O Hell' or
>->John Cage's 'Variations IV' on in a bar, and instead of freaking people
>->out, they'll just think it's the new DJ Spooky record. Put Maryanne
>
>people will always mis-identify unknown music they hear. you're
>taking the cynical hipster approach to all this, jon. Isn't it
>sort of, well, "good", that you now even have a chance to hear
>John Cage in a BAR!? Think about it. That means WE WIN.
>Or is it not about winning, but the eternal fight?
>
>(by the way, I just noticed a ridiculous back-cover of The Wire
>ad for Threshold House - which is Coil, basically, right? It has
>this sort of volcanic/new age landscape and a quote in flowery
>script: "...the key to joy is disobedience." WHAT? haha. when
>i was 17 maybe i would have thought that was cool. but how old is
>John Balance now? in his 50s? and he's still rebelling like a
>teenager. what a dork. Maybe he should go on tour with Mick
>Jagger...)
>
>Another optimistic take: why is it that now that hearing 2
>records at once is a common auditory experience, that that is now
>some sort of bad, sad thing, and an "expression of
>hyper-consumerism" or "nostalgic repetition"? Didn't Oswald, in
>his original plunderphonic essay, advocate the use of home stereo
>systems that would allow this type of listening? When people hear
>enough of these juxtapositions at clubs, they'll eventually
>realize *they can do it too*, they'll wire up 2 cd players at
>once and start experimenting - the END of passive consumption!
>
>I repeat, THIS IS GOOD.
>
>->basic idea you're promoting, that's great. But you're being too hardline;
>->if for no other reason than the fact that each generation experiences it's
>->advances in music as 'new'. Whenever you start hearing yourself say that
>->the kids are simply objectively wrong, a warning bell should go off.
>
>Again, you're both right. Don's looking at the big picture, and
>Jon's down in the trenches looking at stuff with a magnifying
>glass.
>
>best,
>
>smh
>
>Steev Hise, Automagickal Adept
>steevATdetritus.net http://detritus.net/steev
>*Recycled Culture: detritus.net
>*Watching power flow: capitalletters.detritus.net
>*Democratic sound collage generator: soundbakery.detritus.net
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>"The truth is that the world isn't going to end. It has ended."
> -Craig Dremann
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
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