Not intellectually thrilling, from a thread that has been running from some
time on that list, but became sensitive very recently.
The zorn-list = 500 subscribers and 20-30 messages a day.
I don't have time to write now though.
Best. Benjamin Pequet
------------------------------
From: owner-zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #862
Reply-To: zorn-listATlists.xmission.com
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Message-Id: <E12OOC8-0003f8-00ATlists.xmission.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:06:24 -0700
Status: RO
Zorn List Digest Friday, February 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 862
In this issue:
-
Re: how did it happen?
RE: The complete Masada Songbook
Re: this Saturday, Pink Pony, NYC
Re: How'd it happen?
Mingus on TV, tonight
mp3s, etc.
Re: how it happened
Re: how did it happen?
Re: How'd it happen?
e-rax
Re: mp3s, etc.
Re: The complete Masada Songbook
Re: So. How'd it happen?
Re: e-rax
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:11:00 +0100
From: "Rob Allaert" <rob.allaertATcharity.nu>
Subject: RE: The complete Masada Songbook
Hi Robert,
Just because this music isn't selling millions, I believe we have a whole
different group of fans. I believe we are fans who admire and support our
favorite artists. I believe we are fans who actually buy the music performed
by the bands we love. Most list members interested in the Masada CDR are so
because they posses the albums. MP3, especially with jazz sounds, does not
fully replace the quality of CD and can only be a "backup" and an "easy
collection" of the CD music. And, admit it, the playlists come in handy (you
can create as many as you want) . That's the only reason for the existence
of this CDR.
I do believe it would be really wrong to get this CDR without the intention
of buying the music and thus refusing to support the incredible Masada
artists. Hey guys, I'm trying to do good for the loyal fans. The scumbags
who fool me and are only after this CDR without caring for the artists, hey
that's what they are then, scumbags. But they will not succeed to ruin John
Zorn, because, just as it is right now, Zorn and friends _can_ and _will_
continue because of us, the loyal fans. And this CDR won't change this.
Rob, Belgium
Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
"we're talking about music that is NOT selling millions. these people are
releasing beautiful music, and i want them to keep doing this.
i think if you make a cd like this for some friends that you know are big
fans it's fine, but to sell this on a public email list is not only illegal
but especially immoral." - robert
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:25:08 EST
From: OrangejazzATaol.com
Subject: mp3s, etc.
this comes up a bit on the list, apparently.
i personally would be one hundred percent behind someone uploading live zorn
on to the web for "Personal Use". and while people have qualms about mp3s vs.
cds, and this has been debated for quite some time, i just want to cast
another vote with the people who feel mp3s lead into buying the album.
It's just a different feeling owning an album..it's the reason people pay
large quantities of cash for John Oswald's Plunderphonics cd, right?
i consider sending zorn mp3s to my less musically-minded friends to be a good
deed. sure, there will be people who use mp3s instead of buying cds, but the
world's changing. saying that you're going to download mp3s from big labels
like Capitol and Warner Brothers (i don't know, are they the same these
days?) but not small ones seems hypocritical. the large labels are the ones
that have to fund billions of bands that get half-a-cent per cd moved. Zorn
pockets most of the cash from his record labels, and while he uses most of
that cash to put back into the label..well, i forget what my point was. just
let me know when the bootleg site opens up.
from,
matt
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:46:51 +0100
From: Shlomo Weintraub <Ba4205ATfen.baynet.de>
Subject: Re: mp3s, etc.
If someone is going to put a Zorn bootleg-site... I still have some good quality
Masada bootleg to offer.
shlomo
OrangejazzATaol.com schrieb:
> this comes up a bit on the list, apparently.
> i personally would be one hundred percent behind someone uploading live zorn
> on to the web for "Personal Use". and while people have qualms about mp3s vs.
> cds, and this has been debated for quite some time, i just want to cast
> another vote with the people who feel mp3s lead into buying the album.
> It's just a different feeling owning an album..it's the reason people pay
> large quantities of cash for John Oswald's Plunderphonics cd, right?
>
> i consider sending zorn mp3s to my less musically-minded friends to be a good
> deed. sure, there will be people who use mp3s instead of buying cds, but the
> world's changing. saying that you're going to download mp3s from big labels
> like Capitol and Warner Brothers (i don't know, are they the same these
> days?) but not small ones seems hypocritical. the large labels are the ones
> that have to fund billions of bands that get half-a-cent per cd moved. Zorn
> pockets most of the cash from his record labels, and while he uses most of
> that cash to put back into the label..well, i forget what my point was. just
> let me know when the bootleg site opens up.
> from,
> matt
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:05:27 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrdATartswire.org>
Subject: Re: The complete Masada Songbook
Rob, good intentions aside, it doesn't change the fact that what you're
doing is HIGHLY illegal. Back-up your own CDs if you'd like, but if you
distribute it like this, you're in extreme violation of copyright laws
which govern the releases from Tzadik and DIW.
On Thu, Feb 24, 2000, Rob Allaert <rob.allaertATcharity.nu> wrote:
>Hi Robert,
>
>Just because this music isn't selling millions, I believe we have a whole
>different group of fans. I believe we are fans who admire and support our
>favorite artists. I believe we are fans who actually buy the music performed
>by the bands we love. Most list members interested in the Masada CDR are so
>because they posses the albums. MP3, especially with jazz sounds, does not
>fully replace the quality of CD and can only be a "backup" and an "easy
>collection" of the CD music. And, admit it, the playlists come in handy (you
>can create as many as you want) . That's the only reason for the existence
>of this CDR.
>
>I do believe it would be really wrong to get this CDR without the intention
>of buying the music and thus refusing to support the incredible Masada
>artists. Hey guys, I'm trying to do good for the loyal fans. The scumbags
>who fool me and are only after this CDR without caring for the artists, hey
>that's what they are then, scumbags. But they will not succeed to ruin John
>Zorn, because, just as it is right now, Zorn and friends _can_ and _will_
>continue because of us, the loyal fans. And this CDR won't change this.
>
>Rob, Belgium
>
>
>Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
>"we're talking about music that is NOT selling millions. these people are
>releasing beautiful music, and i want them to keep doing this.
>i think if you make a cd like this for some friends that you know are big
>fans it's fine, but to sell this on a public email list is not only illegal
>but especially immoral." - robert
>
>
>-
>
>
- --
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | http://www.metatronpress.com | http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #862
*******************************
[...]
------------------------------
From: owner-zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #863
Reply-To: zorn-listATlists.xmission.com
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digestATlists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Message-Id: <E12OXOL-00011X-00ATlists.xmission.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:55:37 -0700
Status: O
Zorn List Digest Friday, February 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 863
In this issue:
-
mp3s
Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?)
Re: The complete Masada Songbook
Re: mp3s
Re: mp3s
MMW
Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?)
Re: mp3s
Morrissey
Re: The complete Masada/Newsgroups
Re: e-rax
Re: Morrissey
Morrissey
Re: So. How'd it happen?
Futurist Cookbook
MMW opinions
zappa (how'd it happen)
Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
Re: Futurist Cookbook
Re: Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:08:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Troy Alan Hammond <shadyATgladstone.uoregon.edu>
Subject: mp3s
Here's my take.
Music is a pure thing.
Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights,
All bullshit created by fear.
The music is the insanity.
Insanity must flourish.
Let it out.
Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:11:10 +0100
From: patRice <gdaATdatacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: The complete Masada Songbook
Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
>
> i should've been more subtle...
> i'm very careful with copying cd's for other people. when i do it, i never
> copy whole cd's, but make 'sampler' cd's, with one of two songs per artist,
> with the idea to 'tease' them a little so they hopefully go out and buy the
> whole cd of a specific artist!
> and then only if this person does not usually listen to that kind of stuff
> or really doesn't have the $$ to buy all kinds of cd's just to 'try it out'.
> and i'm a musician too, so i also know the other side...
> i'm just trying to spread the music without taking money out of the artists
> pockets...
> if someone copies a cd for me and i really dig the stuff, i would buy the
> original anyway just for the artwork and to support him/her!
>
> robert
right! so we're both on the same wavelength here! glad to know!
yours,
pat
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:25:54 +0100
From: patRice <gdaATdatacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: mp3s
there is a lot of bullshit out there, true.
a lot of it created by feat, yes.
what some / most (?) of us on this list are trying to do is to support
the musicians whose music we love by buying their releases and therefore
enabling them to keep on working on their thing. (and them providing us
with more eardrum-bending, heart-touching music!)
bootleg mp3s, when no-one's making money, are okay in my books. no
problem with that.
but if you say "fuck copyrights ... blabla", what you're actually saying
is "fuck the people who wrote and recorded the music", "fuck john zorn".
etc.
that, being a musician myself, i think is just a fucking bad attitude i
can't dig at all.
yours,
patRice
Troy Alan Hammond wrote:
>
> Here's my take.
> Music is a pure thing.
> Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights,
> All bullshit created by fear.
> The music is the insanity.
> Insanity must flourish.
> Let it out.
> Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:42:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649ATfreenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: mp3s
Troy:
I don't think you'd be that thrilld if it was your work being bootlegged
for free with you getting no compensation for it. An artist deserves to
have his art appreciated. He also deserves to make enough fro it so he
can live and create other art.
Ken Waxman
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Troy Alan Hammond wrote:
> Here's my take.
> Music is a pure thing.
> Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights,
> All bullshit created by fear.
> The music is the insanity.
> Insanity must flourish.
> Let it out.
> Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:10:08 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <prousselATichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?)
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:10:39 +0100 patRice wrote:
>
> > PROGRESSIVE phase. Then in 1994 I bought MORRISSEY's Vauxhall and I and
> > that changed everything for me.
> wow! yes! someone else on the list who digs morrissey! cool. haven't
> really listened to his more recent output, but some of the old stuff i
> love. especially with the smiths...
Add me to the list of Smiths fans. The Jesus & The Mary Chain and The Smiths
were the two groups that made me realize how much I had lost by discarding
rock music during most of the '80s.
Is there any other "modern" (not anymore) band which could put up such
fantastic singles?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:25:12 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keithmarATjetlink.net>
Subject: Re: mp3s
>>>Here's my take.<<<
Is your livelihood affected in any way by this issue? Are you a musician?
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:40:46 -0600
From: King Wilson <kingwilATenteract.com>
Subject: Re: The complete Masada/Newsgroups
>Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
> >
> > i should've been more subtle...
> > i'm very careful with copying cd's for other people. when i do it, i never
> > copy whole cd's, but make 'sampler' cd's, with one of two songs per artist,
> > with the idea to 'tease' them a little so they hopefully go out and buy the
> > whole cd of a specific artist!
One thing you have to remember is that this is a PUBLIC mail list.
I think people forget sometimes that there are hundreds of people who
don't ever post anything, but read every message. When you post
something, you are not just talking to the people who are taking an
active role in the conversation, but to a large crowd of people, who
are all listening to you.
A few days ago, some announced to the KLF list the login and
password of a huge, long time running KLF ftp archive. The owner of
the archive was suddenly swamped, and had to change the L/P. Now
there are alot of people pissed off (myself included).........
BTW I just wanted to recommend to people of the List that they start
checking out the alt.binaries newsgroups. They are starting to
really take off. On alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootleg alone, there
recently been shows by Tom Waits, Naked City, Mr. Bungle, Can, Faust,
Talking Heads, Bill Frisell, Phish's 8 hour New Year's set, etc.
It's pretty amazing just how much music you can get.
If your ISP's newsgroup server sucks as bad as mine does (which I
think is pretty much universally true) go over to supernews.com, or
any of the other ftp servers. Pay around 10 bucks a month to get up
to 2.5 gigs of downloads. Usually, the binaries are on the server
for about a week. The Music/Cost ratio is unbelievable, and I'm
finding things I would never find if I had to track down the tapes,
physically....
read icculus
- -
------------------------------
[...]
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #863
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